I had not seen the movie until now, and I have to say I like it. It's energetic, it captures vividly a particular time and place, and while it borders on romanticizing these already romanticized figures, it doesn't quite go that far—at least for. As Ryan said in class today, and echoed by Emma, our heroes can and do behave badly—and that's before Lucien stabs David Kammerer to death and rolls his body into the river. They are—surprise—selfish and self-involved, over dramatic—and very much precocious and talented young people beset by some genuine demons. I believe that they are real people. And hey, it's Harry Potter as Allen Ginsberg! And I believe Daniel Radcliffe in this difficult role.
1. So your reaction to the movie? Why? And what scene or moment has stuck out to you—or has stayed with you? And why?
2. Of the four main Beat figures—Ginsberg, Burroughs, Kerouac, and Carr—which one do you find yourself most drawn to? And why?
3. This story in a very conscious way is about the birth of the Beats—a strange mixture of middle and working class young men, Jewish and Catholic, straight and gay, all well educated. It's not totally accurate—Caleb Carr, Lucien's son, especially dislikes it for its inaccuracies. But for ou =r purposes, let's take it at face value. How does what we see help explain what soon became Beat? Draw a line from what we see to the literary (and cultural) movement we've been investigating and discussing the last three weeks. Be specific: how does what we see here help explaining the Beats we've been talking about? Use specific details, examples from the film in your answer.
200-250 words. See you all tomorrow. Below: the real people.
ReplyDeleteI thought the movie (or at least the half of it that we've already watched) was an interesting approach to the early Beat culture. At times, I found the movie slightly confusing but it was a nice confusion. The movie perfectly emulates what I imagined the Beats to be like. Also, who doesn't like Daniel Radcliffe. A scene that stuck with me was the scene where Allen Ginsberg took the drugs and wrote for days straight. Not only did I find the cinematography of that scene really interesting, but it was also just so wild that I couldn't help but like it.
I find myself most drawn towards Allen Ginsberg. Even though I found parts of it confusing, I personally really enjoyed Howl. That was what initially drew me towards Ginsberg. In between classes I also spent some time researching Ginsberg and his ongoing struggle with being gay in the 50's. This research was what led me to be most interested in him. I also find it very interesting that Ginsberg is painted as the outsider in the movie. He doesn't have the impulsivity and madness that the other guys do and yet he still hangs on for the ride.
Although I didn't see a sizable chunk of the first half of the movie, from the parts I did see, I followed the journey that the strange mixture of guys underwent. Although different from the rest of the Colombia students, in the beginning Carr and Ginsberg did not have the madness that we later see from the Beats. As the movie progresses though, they meet Kerouac and begin to push the boundaries of society. An example of their stride towards becoming what we now think of as the Beats is when they changed the books in the library. The spontaneity and the openness of the act is distinctly tied with Beat cultured . It is very easy to imagine how these early Beats turned into the famous Beats that we studied.
1) I really like this movie so far because it captures the spirit of the beats very well. It shows how the beats feel restricted by societal norms, and they want to break away from what was normal and expected. They want to be unique individuals, and they want to live a different type of lifestyle. The contrast between Ginsburg, Carr, Kerouac, Burroughs and the other students at Columbia is very interesting. Most of the students at Columbia are seemingly very well put together, very traditional, and very normal rule followers; they are what many people would consider to be “intellectuals.” The beats are intellectuals, but in a very different way. They are unconventional, wild, free, and irresponsible rule breakers. A scene that really stood out to me is when the very proper looking man is leading a group of students, Ginsburg being one of them, through the south hall library, and Lucien Carr gets on the table and starts reciting a very provocative section from a Henry Miller book (which was restricted, so he had to memorize it) aloud. Everyone in the room has looks of shock, horror, and disgust on their faces except for Ginsburg who has a expression of awe and amusement. After this, Carr is forcefully removed from the library by security. I liked this scene because it perfectly depicts the contrast between the unrestrained, rebellious spirit of the beats and the bland normality of typical columbia student from the 1940’s. Also, the fact that the Henry Miller’s book was restricted and the fact that Carr was forced to leave the library because of what he did shows that anything that was different from what was considered to be normal and traditional was seen as bad and wrong.
ReplyDelete2) I find all of the Beat figures depicted in this movie very intriguing, but I am most drawn to Lucien Carr. Even though he comes across as more serious, more complex, a little less light hearted, and a little less goofy than Neal Cassidy, he reminds me a lot of Cassidy in that there is something about him that makes people want to follow him. Lucien Carr is powerful, and maybe even mystical. As they do with Cassidy, the beats follow him in an almost religious sort of way. Like Cassidy, he offered a new way of living. He offered a new lifestyle, where you have the power to control your own fate, rather than simply following society. He offered a lifestyle where you break all the rules. It is the opposite of settling down. However, one way in which Cassidy and Carr were different was that Cassidy didn’t think about things very much. He didn’t make an effort to live this lifestyle; he just lived it. He didn’t try to be an outsider; he just was an outsider. He didn’t break rules to prove a point; he simply broke rules because that was what he wanted to do. He only lived for himself. He never thought about the big picture. On the other hand, Carr was trying to start a movement. He was putting in effort to create “A new vision.”
3) It makes sense that this was the start of the beat movement because Ginsberg, Kerouac, Carr, and Burroughs are all very quirky men and definitely do not fit into what our society would call “normal,” and they are surrounded by all these students and professors at Columbia, who definitely are very traditional and “normal.” At Columbia, they are outsiders. They are disgusted by the normalness of many of the people at Columbia, and they want to start a movement, and create a new lifestyle, which later would become the “Beat lifestyle.” They have “A new vision” for what life can be like.
I am really enjoying the film. I believe one of the reasons I am so drawn to it, is because it feels like it never slows down. Throughout, I never feel like there is a dull moment and I like that. I also think that the movie shows a good job of portraying The Beat lifestyle in that sense. The idea of continuing to move, continuing to write, continuing to create, and continuing to work. I also like the film because of the setting. I think the fact that they are on the Columbia college campus for most of the movie speaks wonders because it really makes the four stand out in such a conservative setting. One scene that has stayed with me throughout, was the scene where Carr, and Ginsberg are sitting in the bar enjoying the live music then all of a sudden, everything slowed down. It made everything seem very sensitive and gave a sense of awareness that I would not have expected from these men... especially considering the are under the influence of Benzedrine. Of the four main characters, I'm tied in equally to a Carr and Ginsberg. I really like Ginsberg because he gives off this vibe of newness. When we first see him, he is new to Columbia and happens to become friend with Carr. I can relate to Ginsberg in the sense that the whole Beat lifestyle is very new to him but it is amusing. He doesn'to quite understand every aspect in the beginning but grows into it as time goes on. As for Carr, I do not like his character specifically but I am drawn into him just for that reason. He is so twisted and crazy sometimes that I am interested in trying to understand why he is the way he is. This movie is a good representation of the The Beat lifestyle because it really accents the way that the generation was always moving. Always on to the next thing and very spontaneous. Also, it accurately portrayed the way in which they had their own beliefs and defied conservative social norms. For example, the whole scene with in the library.
ReplyDeleteSo far I've been very into this movie. Certain decisions from a cinematography perspective have given me pause (almost all the shots seem way too close and I feel claustrophobic), but the most appealing aspect of the movie is Daniel Radcliffe's brutally honest portrayal of Allen Ginsberg. The raw emotion in his performance is the hook of the movie and what engages me the most. The scene that's stuck out to me the most is the one we watched in class today where Ginsberg is begging Carr not to leave. Carr says something along the lines of "I took your boring life and made it extraordinary" -- I find it fascinating that his manipulation of Ginsberg continued to succeed despite his overt egotism and self-centeredness. I think Carr's biggest contribution was simply introducing Ginsberg to the possibility that he could think more radically -- but that's an answer for another blog.
ReplyDeleteI definitely find myself most drawn to Carr. What motivates him? What events led to him becoming the man he is? His character is interestingly nuanced and I've enjoyed being enthralled with him, along with Ginsberg, while also trying to pick apart his psyche (so far it seems like stolen literary allusions and murmuring all the time are his go-tos, but I'll keep looking).
The movie's main parallel to the Beat storyline is the idea of rebellion. Ginsberg's stuffy professor is the personification of "The Man," elevating form and rule over everything, and even calling Ginsberg "Whitman Jr." pejoratively. The Beats not only had a distaste for but felt disgusted with the common literary and poetic forms, and looked to seek greater, deeper meaning by rejecting them entirely.
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DeleteSo far, I have really enjoyed the film, and I can't wait to finish it. In class, we read a lot of the beat's writings however, the film has allowed me to visualize how different the beats were and how they managed to live life by the moment. The movie is fast moving and exciting, just like the Beat generation was. I thought it was interesting to see Ginsberg's transition from the beginning of the movie where he was just a regular freshman at Columbia to when he became the influential beat that he is. As Ginsberg takes more and more drugs, he begins to fit more into the madness of the beat generation. One aspect of the film that I really enjoy is the contrast between the beats, a group of quirky writing revolutionists and the elite Columbia University. In the classroom, the desks were orderly placed and the teacher continued to lecture about "classic"literature. Meanwhile, in the beat's free time, they wrote meaningful literature that challenged the perspectives and constrictions of society. I think that the contrast between these two different types of literature was greatly demonstrated in one of the earlier scenes. The beats had gone and stolen restricted books from the school and replaced the school's collection of classic and religious literature and put them in a library case. I liked this scene because it showed how wild the beats were and they tricked the university. The beats carried a sense of rebellion and were an influential and wild revolution on society. I think that I am mostly drawn to Carr. While watching the movie, I could feel Carr's influence on the people around him and began to feel him influencing me. I was intrigued by Carr's sense of rawness. He says things that allow me to go to new understandings of society and how to break free of it. Carr seems to not care about anything except he wants to live free and dangerously. Carr seems to live off of excitement, as demonstrated by his leadership in breaking into the library, stealing a boat, etc. Other characters in the movie, cannot seem to stay away from Carr. Even though Carr insulted Ginsberg as he attempted to run away, Ginsberg still finds himself searching for Carr. After meeting Carr, people seem to feel a part of themselves is missing, and they are attracted to Carr's aliveness and danger. Carr is inspiring, for the world is endless to him, and he can continue to travel to wherever he wants when he pleases. The film portrays a group of men who come from all over with different backgrounds, yet they unite through the feeling of being an outsider. The men in the movie continue to want to inspire others and connect to others, which turned into the Beat Generation. Their desire to escape normality and uniform through writing is what motivates the beat generation. It is interesting that those who are outsiders have the ability to have strong connections to others. The men in the movie are constantly challenging how they are told to act, and they give themselves a voice through their writing and actions. The men are constantly moving and desire more experience and inspiration.
ReplyDelete1- I am really enjoying this movie. It is really a strange concept and delves deep into a lifestyle that we- our class- have not been exposed to. I think that’s what makes this movie so interesting to me. While we’ve been discussing this generation for weeks, seeing this movie has created a visual as to what this life is about to these people, and also how they got to this place. I think the point when Ginsberg kissed Carr and the aftermath of that stuck with me the most. I think this is when Ginsberg realizes the extremes that Carr has lead his life toward. Carr became almost the entire purpose of Ginsberg’s life, which is eye-opening to see the strong influence build up so quickly.
ReplyDelete2- I’m mostly drawn to Ginsberg. This may be because we see the most of him in the movie, but it showed how far off his life plan was from what happened to him at Columbia. He seemed to be very level-headed in the beginning, but it was very interesting to see this studious young man who never even drank become a mess of a man doing every hard drug imaginable. To see this transition opened my eyes to see reality in the fact that there will always be people who stop caring, no matter what their background is. This sudden transition is what I found to be the most intriguing factor of Ginsberg.
3- This film seems to really highlight the rebellious side to this group of people over the work that they achieve. It shows their close friendships with one another and how events affect them all as a whole unit. Of course, the library scene really shows off their mischief. Not only were they getting themselves into trouble (a seemingly common theme of the Beats generation) but also they are uniting themselves to become a revolutionary group of people. They put the banned books in the showcase because they need to leave their mark on society. Through all of the drug use and living in the moment, these characters seem to live a lifestyle that not a lot of people could thrive off of. I consider this group of people to be true Beats.
1.) I like the movie a lot, I think it is a gripping film tat really pulls me in to the story. I think that the scenes of manic action followed by a really low-key scene of just talking or less is really cool to me. I think the scene that stood out the most to me was the library scene because it showed the Beats doing their thing, clashing against the society and the ideas of propriety.
ReplyDelete2.) I find myself most drawn to Ginsberg. Part of that is that it seems that the movie focuses a lot more on him and his side of things, but also because he seems easier to empathize with, as he has real feelings and isn’t much more emotionally repressed than your average person.
3.) I think that this film helps represent the Beats in a couple of ways. Firstly, it shows the inner-workings of their lives, and not just the fantastical stories from many novels and books about them. The film brings to the forefront many examples of what some would call the vices of these young men, and some call their salvation. Drug use, meaningless sex, petty crime, trespassing, etc. I think that it shows how the beats became beats in the way that these men all connect with each other. Their feelings towards each other are all very complicated but they all feel quite connected in some way or another.
1) I like the movie so far. We can finally see what the beats did instead of just reading about what they did. The one scene that stayed with me was when Ginsberg took the drugs and began writing for the next couple of days. It kind of showed what Kerouac and Ginsberg did before they wrote.
ReplyDelete2)I am most drawn to Ginsberg. We can see how he changes throughout the movie. Also, the whole situation with his mother and father was really interesting. Ginsberg is the only character so far that we have seen from the beginning and now I want to see what happens to him when the movie finishes.
3) the film shows how much they broke the law, for example, when they changed all the books in the library and then ran from the police. We also see everyone taking more and more drugs, getting madder and madder. We can really see the beginnings of this generation.
Crazy. Wild. Liberating. I think that's the first adjectives that come to mind when I think of Kill Your Darlings. At the beginning there's this feeling of sadness because of Ginsberg's situation. There's a feeling of wanting to escape. That's precisely what he did. He chose to go to college. He chose to be selfish. A scene that stuck out to me was when Jack Kerouac was listening to his friend in the war speak through the cd. You could hear his friend talking in the background and different scenes occurred, like the death of David. We saw Lucien lose control. We saw the harmful selfish side of him. He killed David for himself. He didn't want to deal with him anymore so what do you do? Kill him. Then you see Ginsberg having sex for probably the first time. At the end it goes back to Kerouac listening, knowing his friend has died in the war. I feel like the war symbolizes the beat lifestyle. Although the beats aren't dying for a country they are dying from drugs and alcohol. Soldiers fight for freedom and the beats write for freedom. I am drawn to Kerouac, (probably because he's cute) because he's so intense. We see a crazy, careless side of him when he's with the other guys but then we see him sad. He feels strongly and he's not afraid to express it. He reacts quickly without thought. We see the birth of the beats through Ginsberg's eyes. We see the rebellion in school, we see the drugs and alcohol, we see the sexual relationships. We see the selfish way of living by Lucien. New Vision is like the start of the beat generation. We feel the spirit of being a beat. The upsides and the downsides.
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